DOES MAGGIE GALLAGHER WANT TO REPEAL AGE OF CONSENT LAWS??
The National Organization for Marriage has hired an active bigot, Louis Marinella, to run its Summer for Marriage Campaign (thanks to goodasyou for exposing this).
I know, NOMmers hate the b-word. They bat their eyes in sad, innocent victimhood when anyone calls them bigots. Perhaps, then, they shouldn’t partner with someone who tweets stuff like:
#nevertrust activists of the homosexual agenda – they are deceitful people who care only about themselves and not what’s best for society!
Guilt-by-association is a dicey accusation, so I’m not saying NOM endorses this. I’d just like to know which of Lou’s bigoted jeremiads they do and don’t accept. For instance, he created this attack video based on the 1972 (!) Gay Rights Platform. Our craziest opponents love throwing this document at us, so I’m happy to do a quick take-down.
First, spend two minutes watching Lou’s insanity.
What do we know about the authors of this platform? Not much. The only information I could find was from the rabidly anti-gay website Mass Resistance. Let’s take them at their anti-gay word:
In February 1972 the National Coalition of Gay Organizations met at the Armitage Avenue United Methodist Church in Chicago. An invitation had been sent out to 495 homosexual organizations across the U.S. to come and prepare a “gay stance for the 1972 elections.”
About 200 individuals from 18 states representing 85 organizations showed up for the two-day event. Conference participants adopted the 1972 Gay Rights Platform, which included 17 federal and state “demands.”
To summarize: Thirty-eight years ago, at the height of the sexual revolution, a couple hundred gays (~ 0.003% of the country’s gays and lesbians) wrote something down. 83% of the invited groups declined. 17% showed up. And this — this – is evidence that today’s LGBTs want to eliminate age-of-consent laws. How can bigot Lou make this leap? I guess there’s only one answer. We all look alike to him.
The whole thing only makes sense if gays are completely interchangeable. It’s an assumption in so many of their attacks. I’m sick of being held personally responsible for everything any gay person has ever said or done. One of these days I’ll confront someone from NOM and blame them for Stalin’s gulags because, you know, Stalin was straight, just like NOMmers.
But, but, but…
But what about the fact that we do today endorse some of the things in that platform?
Let’s have some fun with that.
- Lou Marinella admits that he has no problem with some of the items on the platform.
- If Lou endorses some of the things in the platform, then Lou must endorse the entire platform!
- Lou was hired by NOM.
- NOM must endorse the entire platform!
- NOM’s founder is Maggie Gallagher.
- Maggie Gallagher must endorse the entire platform!
Which means…
Maggie Gallagher wants to have sex with kids!
That’s ridiculous. Offensive. Utterly irrational. And (I would bet) completely untrue.
But that’s the kind of ridiculous, offensive, irrational, untrue thinking our opponents throw at us in speech after speech, column after column, video after video. When someone indicts you for what another gay person has said or done — merely because you’re gay, too — don’t defend yourself. Take the offensive. Call out the bigotry. Just pause, and frown, and ask, “What’s the connection? Do we all look alike to you?”
495 Gay Organizatons? In 1972? Unless I am crazy, There may have been a few dozen chapters of a few dozen organizations of some sort or other. There may even have been 495 gay people who thought that they headed an organization.
But since I was alive in 1972, I am pretty sure that no one was organzing some national gay conference.
Love the background music in that video; I feel as though I should be marching somewhere with a pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other.
I know, NOMmers hate the b-word. They bat their eyes in sad, innocent victimhood when anyone calls them bigots.
Well, when one considers that HRC, the Obama Party, and the gay and lesbian community fully endorse and support FMA supporters, it becomes pretty obvious that “bigot” in the context has nothing to do with opposition to marriage and everything to do with being the wrong skin color, political affiliation, or both.
I mean, how often do you hear gays and lesbians complaining about this? It seems incomprehensible that they wouldn’t, given their hypersensitivity to a sneeze from anywhere else, but again, skin color and political affiliation = pro-gay.
People aren’t stupid, Rob. They recognized right off the bat that the only rhyme or reason to the Proposition 8 church protests and vandalism had to do, not with how people voted, but to the specific religious denomination and the proportion of
Obama Party votersperceived white or Republican-leaning members.Meanwhile, this is sloppy work on NOM’s part. There are far more recent examples than that of the gay and lesbian community openly consorting with, supporting, and agitating for pedophiles.
And finally:
I’m sick of being held personally responsible for everything any gay person has ever said or done.
Well, when you have gay people saying that anyone who disagrees with them taking children dressed as sex slaves to a sex fair is “close-minded”, or gay and lesbian “rights” organizations saying that sex with children is “common” among gays and lesbians, that’s what happens.
Instead of getting mad at people who take gays and lesbians at their word, why not get mad at the idiot gays and lesbians who say it?
@ ND30: I always find it very confusing to follow “but he said/but she said” discussions, in this especially since I’m not all that up to speed on inter-American political debates, and often have to look up the names thrown around on either side on wikipedia before getting an idea what is being talked about. But since you are here and engaging in this discussion, I really would like to hear your personal argument against (1) same-sex marriage, against (2) same-sex couples raising children, or against (3) same-sex romantic relationships at all (IF indeed you are opposed to any of these.) This is really out of interest about a position I have a hard time understanding at all. No sarcasm or taking the piss intendend. Sheer honest curiosity.
North Dallas 30 makes little sense – what I hear is self hatred wrapped in generalizations (yawn…). Get real ND30. Your antiquated ideals are pathetic.
To ND30,
The links you’ve provided in your 2nd to last paragraph don’t seem to support the point you’re making. The first article is about the Folsom Street fair and presents a range of views, many of them from attendees opposed to the presence of children and one from a police officer who opines that it’s a matter for the parents to decide. It strikes me as unreasonable to suggest that all LGBT folk should be held responsible for the views of an individual whom accuses those who disagree with his view about minors at the fair of being closed minded.
The second article deals with the complex matter of age of consent. Richard Hudler of the Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights in Ontario is the one quoted as saying large age differences (of up to 17 years) are common amongst gay people. The other spokespeople are putting different views about the age of consent. I had a look at the coalition’s exhaustive position on the matter and nowhere is this age gap argument used http://auto_sol.tao.ca/node/2939.
It seems like a piece of rhetoric of Mr Hudler’s own devising. I can see what he’s getting at, given the smaller pool of partners available in the GLBT population, but I wouldn’t use the word common to describe such age differences in the relationships of gay people.
So there you have it, Mr 30. From your own linked articles you’ve demonstrated we don’t all think alike. It seems reasonable to get mad at people who select a contentious viewpoint expressed by one person as absolutely representative when there’s so much evidence it isn’t true.
[...] } Waking Up Now is one of the best pro-gay blogs around. Here’s Rob’s takedown of a video by Louis Marinella, who works for the National Organization for [...]
Dude…I wasn’t even alive when that came out. And call me crazy…but legalizing prostitution and polygamy (both polygyny and polyandry please)). I even understand the argument against having an age of consent, though I don’t agree with it (personally, I’d just like to see it lowered to…oh…15-16).
The first article is about the Folsom Street fair and presents a range of views, many of them from attendees opposed to the presence of children and one from a police officer who opines that it’s a matter for the parents to decide.
That’s hilarious, because a police officer should know that parents don’t have the choice under California law to take their children to locations where people will be exposing themselves and having public sex.
It strikes me as unreasonable to suggest that all LGBT folk should be held responsible for the views of an individual whom accuses those who disagree with his view about minors at the fair of being closed minded.
Said individual invokes the LGBT community as a reason for his behaviors and says that anyone who disagrees with him is close-minded. If you don’t want to be included in that group, call him out publicly.
I had a look at the coalition’s exhaustive position on the matter and nowhere is this age gap argument used
You’re right — they do much better than that.
The Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights in Ontario (CLGRO) believes that the proposed new provisions of the Criminal Code that would be established upon the enactment of Part 2 of Bill C-2 would not, as is contended by the government, protect young people from sexual exploitation. Rather, they would serve only to criminalize certain sexual relations engaged in by young people with older persons, to which the young persons have consented, by deeming that the young persons are incapable of providing consent. This would be true even in situations where the young person and the older person are in a conjugal relationship to which both have consented unless they are expecting a child or are common-law partners.
in short, they state flat-out that age-of-consent laws do not protect children from sexual exploitation and that children are capable of consenting to sex and conjugal relationships.
And it gets better.
The proposed amendments would strip younger people of an important right to sexual self-determination and expression, with the state dictating that they could not willingly and freely enter into consenting sexual relationships with any person who is more than five years older.
And finally:
Criminalizing consensual sexual activity engaged in by young persons with older persons will not protect the younger person; it will only infringe the human rights of both parties and, in particular, the right of young persons to express their sexuality.
So the gay and lesbian community is flat-out stating that children can consent to sex, that it is not exploitative to have sex with underage children, and that children have a right to “sexual self-determination” and “expression”.
And remember, this is all being done in the name of “the Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights”. This group is stating that opposition to age-of-consent laws and insisting that children can consent to sex is a gay rights issue.
Said individual invokes the LGBT community as a reason for his behaviors and says that anyone who disagrees with him is close-minded. If you don’t want to be included in that group, call him out publicly.
No. He owns his own opinion.
“Every parent has to decide for themselves what is right for them. And I respect that. And we decided that this is right for our children.” -John Kruse.
You appear to be asserting the paranoid, hive mind, invasion of the body snatchers perspective that’s alluded to in the blog post. It seems you believe that every non-heterosexual individual must be aware of every other non-heterosexual person’s opinion and then have their personal views on each or them publicised widely enough that you personally can not fail to learn of it.
As it is, you’re forced to look around for yourself to find out if there are any non-heterosexuals publicly disagreeing with Dr Kruse. Extending yourself to the trouble of entering the words “John Kruse Folsom children” in the Google search field and pressing enter might be too much to ask. I did go to the trouble.
The top pick linked to a white supremacist forum. There I learned from forum member Terrabus that it’s all the fault of the Jews. http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t515624-2/ I’m going to take a punt here and guess that Terrabus is white and heterosexual. I do hope you’re been made aware of all the white heterosexual opinion calling him out on this otherwise it might be necessary for you to judge all white heterosexuals as anti-Semitic, white supremacists.
Pick number six took me to Dan savages slog. http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/10/todays_folsom_street_fair_item
“Personally, as a parent, I’m appalled by Gary Beuschel and John Kruse’s decision to take their little girls to Folsom—and in itty-bitty fetish wear no less.”
It appears Dr Kruse has been called out.
No. He owns his own opinion.
No. He has stated that anyone who opposes gay and lesbian people taking children to sex fairs is close-minded.
Feel free to disagree — if, indeed, you can publicly state that another gay or lesbian person is wrong. It seems that you can’t and instead are having to spin.
And actually, I was kind of hoping someone would post that Savage piece, because it is a great example of an inability to state that another gay or lesbian person is wrong.
My favorite part:
Conservatives are always screaming about the divine right of parents to raise their kids however they see fit. Malkin thinks it’s not okay to take a two-year to a one-day kinky street fair—and I don’t think it’s okay either—but I’ll bet you thinks it’s a fine and noble thing when parents opt to “homeschool” their children to “protect” them secular schools teaching their kids facts that conflict with the crap in mommy and daddy’s bible.
So according to the gay and lesbian community, dressing your children as sexual slaves and taking them to an adult sex fair to “show off” is better than choosing to homeschool them, and religious beliefs are “crap”.
And see? It’s not Beuschel and Kruse’s fault. They didn’t do anything wrong. It’s all the fault of conservative and religious people. Those are the only people that Savage is capable of criticizing in this instance. He can say he’s “appalled”, but he never says that what they did was wrong.
Also, notice how Savage NEVER deals with the fact Kruse and Beuschel say that anyone who disagrees with them is “close-minded”. That’s because there is no way that Savage can do that without having to state that Kruse and Beuschel are wrong. He would have to state that other gay and lesbian parents are wrong and incompetent, and he can’t do that. So he spins and attacks conservatives instead.
That’s the hive mind of the gay and lesbian community at work. Gays and lesbians are incapable of criticizing the behavior of other gays and lesbians. Instead they attack and blame conservatives and religious people for making them do it.
Well, North Dallas 30, you’ve sure taken the argument to a degree of absurdity that requires no further response.
That’s the hive mind of the gay and lesbian community at work.
Rob posts about how a section of the conservative commentariat regards non-heterosexuals as interchangeably of no distinction from each other and you come along to demonstrate the sort of convoluted mind set by which members of said commentariat justify their generic vitriol.
Do you ever get the feeling you’ve been played?
Neil– you must have missed the rest of this. Our Boy Here, it turns out, is a homo-hatin’-homo.
Here is my comment from another thread:
So you ARE gay. Great!
Actually no you are not gay. You’re just another homo-hatin’-homo. But you are in great company. Ted Haggard. Lonnie Latham. George Rekers. Larry Craig. Randy Thomas. Alan chambers. Half the catholic priesthood. and a host of others.
And you.
And actually, no, it’s not great. Not for you, not for me, not for gay people in this country, not for the country itself, not for anyone. Because you will continue to damage gay people, including yourself.
And for what? Because you hate yourself so very much. for such a smart man, you sure are an idiot.
And all of those nice things you are insisting are true about gay people? And all of these facts– excuse me, “facts”– that you keep citing? Have you ever heard of projection?
Let’s see. All homos are child rapists and goat fuckers. I’m a homo. Therefore, the children and the goats must be protected from me.
OK, everyone: I officially announce this contest is OVER. There is absolutely no point in ever arguing with a homo-hatin’-homo.
Rob posts about how a section of the conservative commentariat regards non-heterosexuals as interchangeably of no distinction from each other and you come along to demonstrate the sort of convoluted mind set by which members of said commentariat justify their generic vitriol.
And, as I said at the very beginning: when you have gay people saying that anyone who disagrees with them taking children dressed as sex slaves to a sex fair is “close-minded”, or gay and lesbian “rights” organizations saying that sex with children is “common” among gays and lesbians, that’s what happens.
Especially when, as we’ve seen here, you get mad at and blame religious beliefs, conservatives, pharmaceutical companies, anyone BUT the idiot gays and lesbians who say it.
Here is my comment from another thread:
And here is my response from another thread.
And actually, no, it’s not great. not for you, not for me, not for gay people in this country, not for the country itself, not for anyone. Because you wil continue to damage gay people, including yourself.
And for what? Becuase you hate yourself so very much.
Actually, Ben, I would categorize under “self-hating” those people who put popularity ahead of right and wrong.
One wonders what the community would be like had people like yourself had the fortitude to be unpopular long enough to tell people to knock off the irresponsibility, the promiscuity, and the drug use that lit off an epidemic that maimed, disabled, and killed hundreds of thousands of its members and which is still going full steam.
But that would have made you a prude and “sex-negative” in peoples’ eyes, might have made you less socially desirable, might have even gotten you tagged as an Uncle Tom — and what’s a couple cities worth of dead queers when it’s your reputation at stake, right?
Honey– you are just another homo-hatin’-homo, looking for reasons to hate other homos who aren’t homo-hating-homo’s, cause you hate yourself so very, very much.
or perhaps you want to blame gay people for your own failings, or perhaps your life sucks and it must be about being gay. Just about every example the ex-gay industry trots out is absolute sure they wouldn’t have sucked so much as human beings if only they hadn’t been gay. Sure, of course.
Or perhaps you were hurt badly, and somebody, anybody, must be the cause and the fault and the blame of it. It certainly couldn’t be you, or your inability to move on.
It’s sad, depressing, heart-rending, painful, all of it. You are a victim of homophobia, and you don’t even see how you participate in your own victimization. Or maybe you just hate yourself so much that you enjoy it. Who knows?
But you know what? For all of its sadness, for all that my compassion aches for yet another victim of this mindless, sick prejudice– you’re not all that much different from Matthew Shepherd, you know, except that you are alive, in a vague, general, sort of a way…
…For all of that, you know what else? It’s boring. You’re boring. It’s an old, old story, it has been repeated over and over and over again. It’s not new, nor imaginative, nor special. It’s just old. It’s probably as old as St. Paul, he of the darkly hinted at thorn in his flesh. When he spoke, in that inaccurate translation, of “abusers of themselves with mankind”, you have to wonder if the old boy was just projecting. It’s what homo-hatin’homos do. They project.
You should understand something about yourself that is painfully obvious to any well adjusted person. Your problem isn’t your homosexuality. your problem is you abject self hatred. In that you remind me of yet another homo-hatin’-homo. You may well be him. Your style is similar. you know if you are.
And how do I know this? Just go back and read all of the things you have to say about gay people, all gay people, all the time. How we have a hive mind. how we cannot be trusted. How we’re selfish. How we’re this, that, and the other, none of it good, and how all of it is sure to bring about unhappiness and destruction and pain and misery to all good people.
Honey, read your own words.This is what you are saying. Vile things about the vilest people you can think of. And then employ the following simple syllogism:
Are homosexuals are vile. I’m a homosexual. Therefore, I am vile.
Quite apart from what you have to say being silly and childish (but nonetheless a product of a reasonable intelligence), do you not yet understand that you have undermined all of your own arguments? If homosexuals cannot be trusted, then you cannot be trusted. If we lie, you lie. If we are insensate slaves to lust, your are no improved model.
And then there is this nonsense: “One wonders what the community would be like had people like yourself had the fortitude to be unpopular long enough to tell people to knock off the irresponsibility, the promiscuity, and the drug use that lit off an epidemic that maimed, disabled, and killed hundreds of thousands of its members and which is still going full steam.”
Here you are again, projecting your life and its woes onto gay people as a class. You don’t know what I was doing, though I suspect I can guess what you were doing. And in fact, you are dead wrong, not that it is even remotely relevant, because I’m just a guy. But in fact, in 1978, I was the first openly gay person at the Berkeley School of Public Health, with a major in Gay Community Mental Health. So much for your thesis.
“Gay community” is useful shorthand and a good political symbol, but there is likewise no “heterosexual community”, either. I know you think otherwise, (because you are so afraid of yourself), but you know, there really isn’t some Gay Central Headquarters where culture issues are decided and encouraged, or opposed and stamped out. Maybe you are disappointed that they Great Gay Brotherhood of the ’70s never came to fruition. So was I, but I know that my expectations cannot transcend human nature. Which is why, when the straight world has its act together, I would be happy to welcome it’s criticism of the gay world, or at least as it is imagined by homophobes and ignoramuses, and its assistance in correcting those problems, rather than its condemnations and attacks, all the while avoiding its responsibility for creating that world in the first place.
Let me know when daddy child fuckers, who account for 50% of the sexual abuse of children, have stopped working out their issues on their own kids– and stop blaming gay people for it. Let me know heteros stop popping out babies– human beings– for no other reason than that they can and were drunk at the time, and then find criticism with high AIDS rates among gay men, ignoring its virtual non-existence among lesbians. Let me know when the straight world has closed the last door of the last orphanage because the last unwanted kid found a home and they’re not making them dailing by the thousands to starve to death in third world hellholes. In short, let me know if and when the straight world EVER takes responsibility for all the crap it produces as a result of irresponsible, unrepentant, socially approved, god-given HETEROSEXUALITY.
I get that you get most of your information from anti-gay websites, and your own never ending well of self hatred. You may even know people in the anti-gay industry very well. but I want to let you in on a secret. You will never be like them. You will never be liked by them. You may well be used by them, perhaps gladly. Apparently, it is yet another thing what homo-hatin’homos do.
You are the punch line to an old joke: a fag is the homosexual gentleman that just left the room. You are the last line in an old movie: “Why do we hate ourselves so much?”
And for that, I am truly sorry. You are as much a victim as those whom you would victimize. But there’s the catch. You know that failure of mine that you have accused me of, the failure to risk my popularity to tell the gay world not to have such a self destructive lifestyle? Well, here is something else you don’t know about me. I have spent a good portion of my adult life and energy doing exactly that. In fact, I’m doing it at THIS VERY MOMENT! I’m telling someone who is neck deep in a thoroughly destructive lifestyle to give it up, to come out of the sewer and into the light, to love himself .
So, here’s your invitation.
And, as I said at the very beginning: when you have gay people saying that anyone who disagrees with them taking children dressed as sex slaves to a sex fair is “close-minded”, or gay and lesbian “rights” organizations saying that sex with children is “common” among gays and lesbians, that’s what happens.
What happens is the non sequitur you’ve just demonstrated. John Kruse opines that people who disagree with him are closed-minded. So be it. That’s what he thinks. Why that might have anything to do with anyone else’s opinion just because they happen, in common with Kruse, not to be heterosexual is a mystery to all but those whom maintain the perspective that non-heterosexuals operate from a hive mind.
What happens is the quote, My first lover was 17 years older than me. And this is common. from Richard Hudler of the Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights in Ontario is changed into sex with children is “common” among gays and lesbians.
Then what happens is the same non sequitur as above. The statements of one queer organization can be taken for all queers internationally, organised or individual.
Do all queer advocacy groups argue for the reform of laws relating to age of consent? No. Here in Victoria, Australia the Victorian Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby simply advises on the current law.
So much for the hive mind perspective.
I’m waiting to hear from you.
But in fact, in 1978, I was the first openly gay person at the Berkeley School of Public Health, with a major in Gay Community Mental Health. So much for your thesis.
Not really.
After all, John Kruse, the person mentioned above, is a member in good standing and high esteem of the Association of Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists. It’s the accepted opinion of gay and lesbian mental health “professionals” that dressing children as sexual slaves and taking them to a sex fair to “show off” for naked and masturbating adults is an “educational experience”, and that anyone who disagrees with them is “close-minded”.
So it’s pretty obvious that a “mental health professional” in the gay and lesbian community is not going to do anything other than reinforce the typical “gays are always right, everything is straight peoples’ fault, anyone who says otherwise is homophobic” attitude.
And you certainly don’t disappoint.
Let me know when daddy child fuckers, who account for 50% of the sexual abuse of children, have stopped working out their issues on their own kids– and stop blaming gay people for it. Let me know heteros stop popping out babies– human beings– for no other reason than that they can and were drunk at the time, and then find criticism with high AIDS rates among gay men, ignoring its virtual non-existence among lesbians. Let me know when the straight world has closed the last door of the last orphanage because the last unwanted kid found a home and they’re not making them dailing by the thousands to starve to death in third world hellholes. In short, let me know if and when the straight world EVER takes responsibility for all the crap it produces as a result of irresponsible, unrepentant, socially approved, god-given HETEROSEXUALITY.
Which is, of course, a marvelously-convenient way of avoiding any and all responsibility for or confrontation of bad behavior in the gay and lesbian community. If everything is the fault of heterosexuals, then you are not responsible for your actions — and that is the child’s dream, the idea that you can do whatever you want and that someone else will always be to blame.
And this is reinforced by two things — first, that should a gay or lesbian person decide to exercise an independent thought or question a destructive behavior, they are reminded reminded that, because of their minority status, they have no other option than to shut up and do what the community demands, because:
You will never be like them. You will never be liked by them. You may well be used by them, perhaps gladly.
And second, because only damaged or bad people question things.
Honey– you are just another homo-hatin’-homo, looking for reasons to hate other homos who aren’t homo-hating-homo’s, cause you hate yourself so very, very much.
or perhaps you want to blame gay people for your own failings, or perhaps your life sucks and it must be about being gay……
Or perhaps you were hurt badly, and somebody, anybody, must be the cause and the fault and the blame of it. It certainly couldn’t be you, or your inability to move on.
Now what kind of mental health professional would tell someone to blame all of their problems on heterosexuals, that their only choice was to do what he said because no one else would ever like them, and that their contrary attitudes and beliefs were due solely to them being a self-hating, screwed-up failure — even though said professional has never actually met them?
One who was desperate to maintain the belief that all gays must think the same way and that anyone who disagreed was a) not really gay or b) mentally ill.
So it’s really not all that different than those other minority groups that say you’re “not really black” if you aren’t liberal, or “not really Hispanic” if you support enforcement of immigration laws, or all these other things. It’s pretty clear that these groups are using minority status as a rationalization for their thought patterns, and they’re in no mood to have that challenged.
So to sum up matters, Ben, you have to paint me as an awful, horrible failure, whether I am or not.
Because your behavior, beliefs, and attitudes are predicated on them being what gay and lesbians think, and if gays and lesbians can think otherwise, you have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.
Then what happens is the same non sequitur as above. The statements of one queer organization can be taken for all queers internationally, organised or individual.
Mainly because, Neil, you spend all of your time rationalizing and spinning for said things, rather than actively disagreeing with them.
Had you said, “John Kruse is an idiot and should be publicly excoriated for saying that anyone who disagrees with him taking children to a sex fair is dissing the gay community,” or “Richard Hudler is a creepy pedophile who should stop hiding his need for sex with underage children behind the banner of ‘gay rights’,” then you might have an argument.
Whatever you say.
no, I don’t have to paint you as an awful, horrible failure. You do a good job that yourself. Those are your words, not mine.
You can’t reach people who are irretrievably poisoned by hate, fear, stupidity, or religion. That’s the definition of irretrievably.
As a homo-hatin’-homo, that’s where you live. In hate and fear. You’re obviously not stupid, and you haven’t gotten around to the Last Refuge of a Scoundrel (and it’s not patriotism).
So, have a nice life, and post your poison.
Actually, I’ll take it back. You are obviously not stupid, but you are so blinded by self-hatred and anti-gay idoelogy that you might as well be. You will twist and turn any comment anyone makes into some sort of proof that gay people are evil and irresponsible.
Also, I suspect that maybe you are really not a homo-hatin’-homo, though a lot of what you say matches the profile. you may well be just another homo-hatin’-hetero that wants to appear to be gay to give youself some kind of credibility that you imagine you wouldn’t have anyway.
fine. As I said– irretrievably.
Sadly ND30 is gay and just as self hating as you have opined, no matter what the argument, his belief that all gay people everywhere are responsible for any gay person anywhere at any time even before they were born (an important thing to note in his arguments) doing something wrong. When it’s mentioned that heterosexuals account for the vast vast majority of all sex crimes, child abuse, neglect, and violence. He simply says that straights have laws to police themselves (as if gays are not bound by the same laws) and that gays have a disproportionate effect on culture. This is of course amusing since there are like 7 gay people on tv at any given time. His preoccupation with claiming that gays only push sex and drugs ignores all the long work done to stop HIV and diminish the drug culture and the real changes that have happened since the early 80′s.
I know from past postings that ND30 is catholic, texan and his family has never really accepted that he was gay. He claims that he never had a sexual thought or action until 18 and that he immediately dated and stayed with his boy friend at the time. I find this a bit hard to believe but he also claims that he’s completely monogamous (which i support) however his partner of now is not the partner of than. He moved from Texas to San Fran, is a HR person for a company and is active with the GoProud crowd. You can frequently find him posting on gaypatriot.org I’ve known him from as far back as The malcontent blog where he was banned for a time for the same trolling conduct. After finding him bashing gays on one site and than claiming to love gays on another I called him on it and he pretended that he had never been so derogatory but the evidence is pretty plain. He hates most gays and blames their conduct for the reason why his family doesn’t accept gays. His core belief seems to be that if all gays acted like he wanted them to than his family would be forced to accept that it’s not wrong. However somewhere along the line his inability to corral gays into his viewpoint has truly poisoned him and basically if he wasn’t saying that he was “gay” he might as well be the poster boy of the ex-gay movement.
In short, a homo-hatin’-homo.
Sad, but it is clear he has been carefully taught to hate the people his relatives hate. musical comedy can be so ironic.
[...] posted my Peter Barber Gallagher-Sprigg video on a NOM-affiliated Facebook page run by Louis Marinelli. It stirred some controversy, but now his readers agree it’s a parody. Louis offered this [...]
Two things, Tim.
First, I am amused that you can go to such effort to put together an inaccurate biopic on me for the purposes of attack, but seem quite uninterested in the ones of gays and lesbians such as John Kruse and the like who actually do make gays and lesbians look like fools publicly.
Again, this rather reinforces the point; gays and lesbians don’t care how promiscuous, irresponsible, or downright sick you are as long as you espouse gay-sex marriage and blame heterosexuals for everything.
And finally, I give you the same response I gave you previously in comments:
Yes, Tim, I know you’re upset that I can’t find it in myself to be a victim like yourself. And I’m sure that you pity me, because it certainly is more difficult to be a responsible, contributing member of society when I could simply sit on my ass and whine all day about how society mistreats me because I’m a minority.
But frankly, I have too much to do.
By the way, the fact that you are is due to your own choice, not because your sexual orientation forces it on you.
And you are the only gay person who isn’t like that. It must be special to be so…special.
but seem quite uninterested in the ones of gays and lesbians such as John Kruse and the like who actually do make gays and lesbians look like fools publicly.
People like John Kruse only make gays and lesbians look like fools to people who already want to think of gays and lesbians as fools. Anyone who thinks that all of us think or act like John Kruse simply want to believe the worst about us, and no amount of saying it’s not true will change their minds. Their minds are made up and have no use for facts.
Funny, though, that a bunch of drunken frat boys getting it on in Panama City over spring break or teen celebrity girls getting caught on camera panty-less never tars the entire heterosexual population.
As for “promiscuous” gays, you’re right. I’m not going to get my panties in a knot over them. I am not those gay people’s conscience or moral authority. They are free to make their own choices. It doesn’t mean that I think they’re making good choices. It just means that I’m not going to stand around like a self-righteous church lady tsk-tsking them. I have enough trouble focusing on making the right choices in my own life.
And you are the only gay person who isn’t like that.
Oh, I wouldn’t go that far. And frankly, I doubt there would be as many gay people like that if the gay and lesbian community weren’t dominated by the need to put minority status ahead of intelligence, common sense, and rationality.
Moving on, this statement wins the Irony of the Year Award:
Anyone who thinks that all of us think or act like John Kruse simply want to believe the worst about us, and no amount of saying it’s not true will change their minds. Their minds are made up and have no use for facts.
I do love the gay and lesbian hive mind. It drives people to the point of being so desperate to avoid criticizing other gay and lesbian people that they use stereotyping to criticize stereotyping as bad.
Funny, though, that a bunch of drunken frat boys getting it on in Panama City over spring break or teen celebrity girls getting caught on camera panty-less never tars the entire heterosexual population.
That would be because it’s not hard to find heterosexuals who will loudly and publicly speak out against and condemn such things.
Gays and lesbians? For some reason, they’re too busy shrieking that they don’t need to condemn such behavior because, quote, “anyone who thinks that all of us think or act like that simply want to believe the worst about us, and no amount of saying it’s not true will change their minds; their minds are made up and have no use for facts.”
As for “promiscuous” gays, you’re right. I’m not going to get my panties in a knot over them. I am not those gay people’s conscience or moral authority. They are free to make their own choices. It doesn’t mean that I think they’re making good choices. It just means that I’m not going to stand around like a self-righteous church lady tsk-tsking them. I have enough trouble focusing on making the right choices in my own life.
Lovely, and libertarian, and completely at odds with the gay and lesbian community’s support of bans on soda, bans on cigarettes, and demands for lifetime medical care, welfare, housing, and freebies for people who get and spread HIV and other STDs.
In short, you insist on running other peoples’ lives and taking away their choices when it comes to everything else; why should promiscuous sex be any different?
Lovely, and libertarian, and completely at odds with the gay and lesbian community’s support of bans on soda, bans on cigarettes, and demands for lifetime medical care, welfare, housing, and freebies for people who get and spread HIV and other STDs.
I’m have two one-liter bottles of Mountain Dew sitting next to me, so I’m obviously not trying to ban soda. And while I think that smoking is a disgusting and unhealthy habbit, I’ve made no effort to ban it and have no plans to do so.
And yes, I support social justice programs that will provide affordable health care and places to live for everyone. Note that I said everyone, not just gay people or “gay people who get and spread HIV and other STD’s.” I’m also a strong supporter of HIV and STD education and encouraging (there’s a difference between encouraging someone to do something or trying to force or shame them into doing it) people to know their options for HIV/STD protection and make smart choices.
I see nothing inconsistent in any of that. But thanks for trying to turn me into a straw man.
ND30, by quoting the statement ““anyone who thinks that all of us think or act like that simply want to believe the worst about us…” you imply that no one actually believes the worst about LGBT people, that such critics are simply a creation of the LGBT “hive mind”.
And then you turn around and speak exactly like one of those critics, painting LGBT people with a broad brush, claiming that, among other things, they “get and spread HIV and other STDs.”
If you could hear over the buzzing of your own hive mind you’d realize that heterosexuals get and spread HIV and other STDs as well, but the main point is that you dismiss anyone who disagrees with you with a broad brush.
Maybe you should step out of your own hive, but you’ll have to do it voluntarily. In spite of your paranoid theories no one’s going to force you to change your beliefs or your behavior.
I wouldn’t waste any time with “North Dallas Thirty.” Debating with anonymous fringe-right closet cases is a waste of time. They don’t have the honesty to even present their views with a real face — making character slurs against the real people they debate while quivering like cowardly poodles behind a pseudonym of self-loathing.
Not worth the energy.
Lovely, and libertarian, and completely at odds with the gay and lesbian community’s support of bans
Jared, I wouldn’t be too bothered by ND30′s straw men. I am a libertarian (and served on a national board of a libertarian LGBT organization for three years), and ND30 has aimed his vitriol at me as well and slammed libertarianism.
The potent effect of this time-wasting troll is not to create memorable, factual and interesting debate but rather “say whatever sticks” in order to attack gay people and validate his own miserable, self-admitted closeted existence.
Pay him no further heed.
Brian,
I realize you’re right. But let’s face it, sometimes it’s fun to feed the trolls. It’s kind of like going to an alligator farm and feeding the alligators marshmallows. It doesn’t really accomplish much, but it makes for a pleasant afternoon in its own right.
They don’t have the honesty to even present their views with a real face — making character slurs against the real people they debate while quivering like cowardly poodles behind a pseudonym of self-loathing.
The entertaining thing about that, “Brian Miller”, is that for some reason you don’t seem to have problems with the fact that not a single soul other than you on this thread is using their correct or full name.
So unless you’re willing to state that all of these people are self-loathing closet cases who have nothing to add to the discussion because they are using pseudonyms to comment, you’re just being a hypocrite.
But that’s not unusual; as I’ve demonstrated elsewhere, you argue that your status as an “out gay” means you don’t have to be in the least bit accurate in your statements. Indeed, if one reads your tirades, it seems the main problem you had with the Libertarian Party is that it seemingly and inexplicably refused to give you special treatment based on your sexual orientation as you demanded — something completely contrary to the beliefs of libertarians, but quite in line with the usual tired Obama-worshiping gay-sex liberalism that you try to pass off as “libertarian”.
And yes, I support social justice programs that will provide affordable health care and places to live for everyone.
Or you could simply reach into your own pocket and pay other peoples’ bills yourself. But evidently your commitment to “social justice” is only strong enough to make you spend other peoples’ money, and not your own.
Now, let’s deal with the other pressing question.
From Christopher:
If you could hear over the buzzing of your own hive mind you’d realize that heterosexuals get and spread HIV and other STDs as well
From Jarred:
I’m also a strong supporter of HIV and STD education and encouraging (there’s a difference between encouraging someone to do something or trying to force or shame them into doing it) people to know their options for HIV/STD protection and make smart choices.
Actually, heterosexuals don’t get and spread HIV even close to as well.
The data, presented at CDC’s 2010 National STD Prevention Conference, finds that the rate of new HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men (MSM) is more than 44 times that of other men and more than 40 times that of women.
The range was 522-989 cases of new HIV diagnoses per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per 100,000 other men and 13 per 100,000 women.
The rate of primary and secondary syphilis among MSM is more than 46 times that of other men and more than 71 times that of women, the analysis says. The range was 91-173 cases per 100,000 MSM vs. 2 per 100,000 other men and 1 per 100,000 women.
And as far as “education”, we’ll take “epic fail” for the win, Wink.
Gay and bisexual men continue to bear the greatest burden of HIV infection, accounting for an estimated 53% of new HIV infections, and is the only group for which new infections are on the rise.
And in San Francisco, it’s 90% of new HIV infections.
But then again, gay people are so mentally impaired and incapable of being responsible for themselves that Viagra ads force them to have unprotected and promiscuous sex, so I guess these numbers are no surprise.
Or you could simply reach into your own pocket and pay other peoples’ bills yourself. But evidently your commitment to “social justice” is only strong enough to make you spend other peoples’ money, and not your own.
I’m a software engineer, and I gladly pay a healthy amount of taxes every year to help pay for the programs that I support. I’m even willing to see my taxe rate increase some, so long as I’m still able to support myself and live comfortably with the net pay I’m left with. So the suggestion that I’m only interested in “spending other people’s money” is both ludicrous and dishonest.
I’m a software engineer, and I gladly pay a healthy amount of taxes every year to help pay for the programs that I support. I’m even willing to see my taxe rate increase some, so long as I’m still able to support myself and live comfortably with the net pay I’m left with.
Why wait? Just write a check to the government now and pay the rate that you want to impose on others. Put your money where your mouth is and pay up.