Maggie Gallagher Washes Her Hands

Maggie Gallagher has an editorial in the the NY Post in which she denies her battle against marriage equality has any effect on gay teen suicides.  Let’s have a look.  Maggie’s statements are in bold.

Do I have blood on my hands?

Ooo, pick me, I know!

Major gay-rights groups are saying so. Each of us who opposes gay marriage, they say, is responsible for the terrible and tragic suicides of gay teens that recently hit the news.

I can’t speak for the major gay groups, but personally I’ve always made a distinction between people who earn 6-figure salaries by spreading lies about gays and lesbians and marriage, and the voters who oppose marriage equality as a result.  But this is one of your favorite tactics, Maggie:  any criticism of you is actually an attack on millions of people.  Delusions of grandeur much?

San Francisco just filed a brief in the Prop 8 case, saying 7 million Californians who voted to protect marriage as the union of one man and one woman are responsible for high rates of suicide among gay people.

Actually, the brief says:

The net effect of discrimination against lesbians and gay men in society, according to Dr. Meyer, is a disproportionate incidence of mental and physical health problems, substance abuse, depression, and suicide.

“Discrimination against gays and lesbians in society” includes not just gay marriage, but job discrimination, housing discrimination, immigration, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, beatings, arson, and parental abandonment.  The San Francisco brief doesn’t even mention the 7 million people, but you want your readers to believe the brief “says” what you claims it “says.”

You’d have been more accurate here if you said some of us believe that those 7 million voters contributed to the problem.  But not nearly as much as people like you who lied to get their votes.  Or who spend their lives stripping gays and lesbians of even the smallest legal recognition.

Evan Wolfson, one of the leading architects of the gay marriage movement, calls me out personally: “National Organization for Marriage Chairman Maggie Gallagher is among those who, with reckless disregard, attacks LGBT youth.”

I’ve never met Evan Wolfson and can’t comment on his claim.  But I do know we’re right to call you out personally, especially when you tell people that same-sex couples can’t love each other the way opposite-sex couples can.  That we can’t love our children the way straight couples can.  You don’t think that sends a message of despair to gay kids?  Really?

Former Clinton adviser Richard Socarides told the AP these suicides demonstrate why gays should be allowed to marry: “When you speak out for full equality now, as opposed to partial equality, or incremental equality, you send a message to everybody, including the bullies, that everyone is equal.”

Apparently, either we all agree that gay marriage is good or gay children will die.

Actually, either we all stop saying that gays are inferior to straights, or gay children will die.

It’s a horrific charge to levy in response to some pretty horrifying stories. Will gay marriage really reduce or prevent gay teen suicide? I felt a moral obligation to find out.

Or a financial obligation to keep your money rolling in.

Massachusetts has been tracking gay high school students for a decade using the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Youth Risk Behavior Survey.

LGBT teens were roughly four times as likely as other students to attempt suicide in the last year. They’re also about twice as likely to report being in a physical fight at school, three times more likely to say they were injured by a weapon and almost four times as likely to say they missed school because they felt physically unsafe, compared to other teens.

These kinds of negative outcomes are consistent with the idea that anti-gay bullying is mainly responsible for the higher suicide rate among gay teens.

I hear a “but” coming…

But as I kept reading, I kept finding pieces of the puzzle that don’t seem to fit the “it’s homophobia pulling the trigger” narrative.

Not hard to do when your income depends on it.

Gay students are also more than twice as likely to report having had sexual intercourse before age 13 — that is, to be sexually abused as children. They are three times as likely to report being the victims of dating violence, and nearly four times as likely to report forced sexual contact.

Teens who are open enough to identify themselves as gay might also be open enough to reveal things the average teen would hide.  At least, that’s one answer.

An alternative is that people like you have so consistently and thoroughly demeaned gay people that gay kids are more confused, conflicted, and vulnerable to abuse than straight kids.

A majority of LGBT teens in Massachusetts reported using illegal drugs in the last month.

Congratulations – your message of despair is having an impact!

(Perhaps most oddly, gay teens are also three times as likely as non-gay teens to report either becoming pregnant or getting someone else pregnant.)

Does it seem odd?  You don’t think gay teens could be eager to prove to themselves they’re not gay in a culture that demeans their sexual orientation?  If you disagree, then you’d best improve your case so it can account for this oddity.

Forced sex, childhood sexual abuse, dating violence, early unwed pregnancy, substance abuse — could these be a more important factor in the increased suicide risk of LGBT high schoolers than anything people like me ever said?

Maggie, this defense amounts to nothing more than, I’m not the only thing pushing gay kids to suicide, and other things are even worse! That doesn’t relieve you of your culpability.  And again, you should look at your role in making gay kids more vulnerable to these forces.

The deeper you look, the more you see kids who are generally unprotected in horrifying ways that make it hard to believe — if you are really focusing on these kids’ well-being — that gay marriage is the answer.

Nice straw man, Maggie.  Who said gay marriage is “the answer”?  Marriage discrimination is one facet of anti-gay discrimination.  You take comfort in the idea that you’re not the entire problem, but you’re still part of the problem.

And that’s exactly what the Youth Risk Behavior data also shows: In 2001, gay teens in Massachussetts were almost four times more likely to have attempted suicide (31 percent versus 8 percent). In 2007 — after four years of legalized gay marriage in that state — gay teens were still about four times more likely to attempt suicide than non-gay teens (29 percent versus 6 percent).

Or, perhaps, after six years of increasing visibility in the youth media, gay teens were more willing to talk about being gay 2007 than they were in 2001 (or 1991 or 1981 or 1951).

Of course, another difference between 2001 and 2007 is that NOM (or Protect Marriage or Stand For Marriage Maine) didn’t exist in 2001, getting national attention.  And it’s well-documented that anti-gay abuse and violence increase during the campaigns against marriage equality spear-headed by, well, you. Could there be a connection?

Whether you are looking at their faces or looking at the statistics, one thing is clear: These kids need help, real help. They should not become a mere rhetorical strategy, a plaything in our adult battles.

If you see gays and lesbians battling the forces that drive kids to suicide, it takes willful blindness for you to reduce those kids to “a mere rhetorical strategy, a plaything in our adult battles.”  You’re demanding we fight crime while ignoring the forces that cause crime.

Each of these teens is a child of God. And each one deserves better from all of us than becoming a “teachable moment” in someone else’s culture war.

And yet here you are, using them as a “teachable moment” in your culture war.  You’re right about one thing – they deserved better than that.  They deserved rich lives in a society where people don’t demean them or strip away their rights or bully them to death.  You should work toward that world instead of scrambling to avoid your share of the blame.

Maggie Gallagher is president of the National Organization for Marriage.

National Organization “for” Marriage?  I don’t think so.  Have you ever counted up the number of marriages you’ve prevented versus the number you’ve saved?  Or have you been too busy lately washing that mysterious red stuff off your hands?

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46 comments to Maggie Gallagher Washes Her Hands

  • 1

    […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Chris Stout, Chris Williams and Alonso Duralde, Kyle. Kyle said: RT @amboy00: Okay, wow! Rob Tish eviscerates Maggie Gallagher in this rebuttal. Worth reading point for point. http://bit.ly/aaHkKD […]

  • 2
    tavdy79 says:

    One night in Gallagher Towers, Lady Maggie-Beth is found wandering the corridors, muttering to herself:

    “Out damned spot: out I say. One: two why then ’tis time to do ‘it: Hell is murky. Fie, my Lord, fie, a soldier, and afear’d? what need we fear? who knows it, when none can call our power to accompt: yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him. The Thane of Fife, had a wife: where is she now? What will these hands ne’er be clean? No more o’ that my Lord, no more o’ that: you mar all with this starting. Here’s the smell of blood still: all the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand. Oh, oh, oh. Come, come, come, come, give me your hand: what’s done, cannot be undone.”

  • 3
    Matthew says:

    How do we know that the kids who actually killed themselves were more likely to be having sex, getting someone pregnant, using illegal drugs or were sexually molested? It may be that these other behaviors are more likely in gay youth but there also may be no correlation to those other data points and the actual suicides or those contemplating suicide. She offers no evidence for this fact. Just because there is a correlation does not mean its causal. Meanwhile there is ample evidence (suicide notes being an example) of kids who killed themselves because they did not feel welcomed or accepted or loved or that everyone disapproved of their sexuality.

  • 4
    Michael says:

    Outstanding post.

  • 5
    Shawn P. says:

    Has anyone else looked at the data she cites? There’s good reason to question anything that she asserts as so-called “fact.”

  • 6
    Teal says:

    I tried to look up the cited statistics. Some of them seem to come from the survey results published by the Massachusetts Commission on GLBT Youth (http://www.mass.gov/cgly/publications.html). I think most of the stats come from the 2009 survey, but Maggie switched to 2007 for the suicide stat, probably because that year was a bit of a spike — the percent of gay teens reporting suicide attempts was 29% in 2007 but 25% in 2005 and 2009. (But Maggie is correct that the relative risk for gay teens has not changed — gay teens were about 4x more likely than straight teens to attempt suicide in all three years.)

    I couldn’t find any source at all for her stats on sexual abuse and relationship violence. Her claim that gay teens are 3x more likely to have an unintended pregnancy is incorrect (according to the 2009 survey, the risk is actually 2:1).

  • 7
    sailormouth says:

    A small semi-sequitor quibble that I can’t fix and don’t know that you can either, but as I was attempting to share your most recent post on Facebook, my only option for a graphic was your (drop dead gorgeous [are you sure you’re actually in a relationship, really?!]) shirtless picture, which doesn’t help much beyond preaching to the choir. Is it possible to add a few stock pics for when reposting your posts we can choose something a little less. . . prurient?

    You’d be shocked at how awkward I feel posting this request, and I hope that you continue to show as many shirtless photos as you have, just that for each nine, one that is rated G so that I can push the true message forward would be appreciated.

  • 8

    How do we know that the kids who actually killed themselves were more likely to be having sex, getting someone pregnant, using illegal drugs or were sexually molested?

    Because there are strong and established linkages between sexual molestation, drug abuse and sexual promiscuity, and suicide attempts.

  • 9

    Ah, the hilarity of Rob’s contradictions.

    If you see gays and lesbians battling the forces that drive kids to suicide, it takes willful blindness for you to reduce those kids to “a mere rhetorical strategy, a plaything in our adult battles.” You’re demanding we fight crime while ignoring the forces that cause crime.

    But of course, above, Rob had no problem ignoring the forces when they weren’t Maggie Gallagher.

    Maggie, this defense amounts to nothing more than, I’m not the only thing pushing gay kids to suicide, and other things are even worse! That doesn’t relieve you of your culpability. And again, you should look at your role in making gay kids more vulnerable to these forces.

    So you really don’t care about any of these other things. Your only concern is attacking and blaming Maggie Gallagher.

    Again, this is no surprise, Rob; the gay and lesbian community goes to enormous lengths to blame others for their problems, even to the point of insisting that Viagra ads cause gays to have promiscuous sex and are responsible for the fact that gays and lesbians abuse and use illegal drugs.

    But really, it’s not doing you a bit of good, and frankly, it’s making the gay and lesbian community look rather infantilized.

  • 10

    Thank goodness you’re here to defend poor Maggie, who only wants LGBT citizens to not have even a shred of the legal protections afforded opposite-sex married couples. How could her constant, relentless attacks on the gay community possibly have any affect on people?

  • 11

    Just to be clear: I mean people in general, not just the LGBT ones.

  • 12
    Paul in Canada says:

    North Dallas 30 – you are pathetically transparent. Please, unless you have something to say that isn’t a personal attach, don’t bother. Your attitude is exactly why so many young LGBTQ people struggle with their self worth. Shame on you for adding to the stigma, bigotry and hatred.

    Somehow I think you probably consider yourself a christian. If you do, double-shame!!!

    Rob – thanks for continuing to shed light on fact. Someday, these asshats will finally accept their guilt, ask for forgiveness and grow up!

  • 13
    tavdy79 says:

    “Because there are strong and established linkages between sexual molestation, drug abuse and sexual promiscuity, and suicide attempts.” — ND30

    Recent data indicate that describing gay men as promiscuous is highly inaccurate. While it’s true that the data imply that gay men are twice as likely to be promiscuous than heterosexuals, the proportions of both groups that have had more than 20 partners are so low (2% and 1% respectively) as to be irrelevant for the vast majority. Also, both %ages are well inside any likely acceptable margin for error for each-other, which is typically around 2% to 5% for a credible survey, rendering the 1% difference statistically meaningless. So describing gays as “promiscuous” is misleading at best, slander at worst.

    Your mention of drug abuse is worth noting as well, since many of the LGBT drug users I know choose to use drugs as a means of escaping reality for a while. If there’s a link between drug abuse and suicide, it’s because they’re both symptomatic of other problems, in the same way that photophobia and rash are both symptomatic of meningitis. In the case of LGBTs, are very often linked to discrimination, persecution and condemnation at the hands of people like Maggie Gallagher.

  • 14

    Rob,

    I wonder if Maggie will see your response.

  • 15
    Neil says:

    Each of these teens is a child of God. And each one deserves better from all of us than becoming a “teachable moment” in someone else’s culture war.

    Is Ms Gallagher not referring to herself as the someone else in the above quote? In which case, perhaps she’s aiming for a historical religious consistency. Perhaps she’s endorsing that beyond becoming a so called teachable moment, those self annihilating children of God deserve to be thought slain in a holy culture war, or crusade to use the old fashioned term.

    A good Catholic like Ms Gallagher knows to follow the tradition of the Crusades. Whether they be gay or straight, Christian or otherwise, I suspect she has sympathies with Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux and Papal representative of France whom, back in the 13th Century, coined the phrase, “Kill them all, God will know his own.”

  • 16
    Kenny says:

    3x more likely to have an unwed pregnancy or get someone pregnant?
    Huh. So is Bristol or Levi going to come out first?

  • 17

    Your attitude is exactly why so many young LGBTQ people struggle with their self worth. Shame on you for adding to the stigma, bigotry and hatred.

    Oh really? How’s that? I want details. Do share with me exactly how I cause gay and lesbian children to kill themselves.

    While you’re working on that, how about the fact that the gay and lesbian community openly states that sex with children seventeen years younger than you are is normal and common in the gay and lesbian community?

    The Senate’s legal affairs committee is studying a Harper government bill that would raise the age of consent from 14 to 16. It will almost certainly pass — no political party has opposed it — but queer and youth-led groups came out Feb 22 to insist on their sexual freedom.

    The proposed changes will have a disproportionate impact on gays, said Richard Hudler of the Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights in Ontario.

    “My first lover was 17 years older than me. And this is common [among gay people],” he said.

  • 18

    As usual, you’re distorting. Hudler did not state his age at the time, so using the word “children” is a deliberate ruse.

    On top of that, a guy in CANADA (NOM is a US organization, fighting the freedom of US citizens, remember?) saying something is common amongst gays does not make it true.

    I will admit the first man I had sex with was significantly older than I. He was FOURTEEN whole months (plus a few days) older.

    Is it common in the gay community for guys to sleep with guys who were an entire grade ahead of them in school? My experience says yes, since that was the case for me.

    Therefore, I am now representing the entire gay and lesbian community when I openly state that the norm in gay relationships is for one man to be a little over a year older than the other.

    Promiscuous slut that I am, I am now going to go crawl in bed with the very same man mentioned above! Our fleeting relationship of a mere seventeen years, with 100% monogamy, is ample proof that gays are both incapable of lasting relationships and disdainful of monogamy.

  • 19
    Richard Rush says:

    So, it appears that ND30 approves of “protecting” kids from having sex, but does NOT approve of protecting them from bullying and death. Nice.

  • 20
    Wade@MacMorrighan.Net says:

    (Sarcasm Alert) Maggie’s poor “scholarship” couldn’t *possibly* have *anything* to do with the demonstrable FACTS that she misrepresents her source citations and ignores data that disproves her thesis. could it? ;oP This is, after all, why an ivy league University press refused to publish her book on marriage! It’s my contention that Mags was hoping to be able to posit herself in the public realm as a “Marriage scholar”! LOL!

    Personally, I am SHOCKED that the media hasn’t gone after Maggie for her demonstrable mendacity! I have caught her in actual LIES on CNN more than once: while debating with a guy named Toby, Gallagher declared that “:Civil Unions” were okay–-trying to pander a softer and less extreme image to the public–-but not only does her writings speak to the contrary, but she’s also declared that sub-second class Domestic Partnerships and Civil Unions “erode the status” of marriage, and Toby also pointed out that NOM was currently (at the time of the debate) launching an anti-gay campaign against Washington state’s “Everything by marriage” Civil Unions law! But, you know what Maggie did? She called Tony a liar and claimed that wasn’t true at all… And, CNN allowed her lie to stand (which isn’t the first time!).

    More recently, at the end of a debate with Evan Wolfson, Evan commented that Gallagher doesn’t really care about the “rights of the people” to vote on defining marriage (their new so-called “Civil Rights” movement is about “voting”, which is terrifying!), otherwise NOM and Maggie wouldn’t be endorsing a rather draconian Fed. Marriage Amendment that would strip citizens from being able to vote by taking that out of their hands! In fact, the vers. of a FMA that Gallagher endorses is written in such a way that it would not only prevent courts from being able to protect their Gay citizens and uphold their Equal Protections clause, but that it might even nullify any Marriage Equality laws throughout the country in every state that was put in place either by the Judiciary or the Legislative branches! Gallagher immediately piped up claiming that Evan was putting words in her mouth, and that she doesn’t believe nor endorse that, when in fact she DOES!!!

    I, for one, would LOVE to put together a documentary documenting Gallagher’s demonstrable LIES, and call it, “The Big Lie”!

  • 21
    Wade@MacMorrighan.Net says:

    A great response to Gallagher’s Op-Ed piece of shite! Though, by the end, you’ll notice how Gallagher attempted to shift the blame from herself to the Gay community for the recent suicides that we were manipulating to get the public on our side and opposed to NOM!

  • 22
    Wade@MacMorrighan.Net says:

    BTW, re: Gallagher’s public mendacity, isn’t it odd considering that she’s a “Catholic”, yet there’s that whole “not bearing false witness” thing. WTF? How can she lie like this, and still claim to be a Christian?

  • 23
    Wade@MacMorrighan.Net says:

    LightningBaltimore, I personally have NO idea what Christofascists such as ND30 have against promiscuity! They are behaving like a Puritan, and that everyone sahould abide by their sense of morals! It’s offensive! ALso, remember how much more RARE it is to hear them ever speak two words about promiscuous heteros!

    However, what *is* unfare, IMO, is the “age of consent” laws in most countries which require Gay men to be 18 to consent to sex, when it is significantly lower for heteros. in other countries and states. The age of Consent in England is 16; yet for a Gay kid it’s 18. In the U.S. the age of consent for heteros. fluctuates, yet for Gay kids it al remains “18”. This, I believe, is based upon early steriotypes that Gay men, in particular, are somehow predatorial and will go after children unless laws punish such activity and limit our freedoms! It makes no sense to have, in one state the age of consent be 16 or even 14 in some (yes, they exist), while Gay men and Lesbians are singled out and can be punished for engaging in sex with someone (even of their own age) if they are not, yet, 18!

    Although, in Iowa, the AOC is, like, 16, I believe, yet a good friend of my brother was charged with a sex crime for having sex with a minor (he was in his 20s at the time), just because he broke up with her. Not only did she look MUCH older than that (she’s only 18, now, and looks 30!), but she’s done this to other men before (on purpose) by concealing her age! Why her prior bad acts were not admissible is ridiculous, IMO.

  • 24
    Neil says:

    The age of Consent in England is 16; yet for a Gay kid it’s 18.

    Hi Wade,

    That used to be the case but was fixed about 10 years ago. It’s 16 for all now.

  • 25
    Wade@MacMorrighan.Net says:

    @Neil: THANKS! That’s good to know!

  • 26
    ascanius001 says:

    Love the Christian; hate the Christianity.

  • 27
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  • 28
    Martin says:

    Aye. Brilliant post, once again. Thanks.

  • 29

    As usual, you’re distorting. Hudler did not state his age at the time, so using the word “children” is a deliberate ruse.

    Yes, because the man was arguing against the age of consent being at fourteen.

    Is it really that difficult for you to say that the man is an idiot and a pervert, or will you really go down trying to defend someone who thinks there’s nothing wrong with a fourteen-year-old having sex with a thirty-one-year old?

    Or are you of the mind of Wade that says that adults who have sex with underage children are not responsible because the child tricked them, and therefore the child is to blame?

    And this got really funny.

    Our fleeting relationship of a mere seventeen years, with 100% monogamy, is ample proof that gays are both incapable of lasting relationships and disdainful of monogamy.

    Actually, no; your support and endorsement of statements such as this is what provides ample proof.

    LightningBaltimore, I personally have NO idea what Christofascists such as ND30 have against promiscuity! They are behaving like a Puritan, and that everyone sahould abide by their sense of morals! It’s offensive!

    So were you to actually be practicing monogamy and sexual responsibility, you would be behaving, in the words of the gay and lesbian community, like “Puritans”, and would be “Christofascists” who opposed the natural promiscuous behavior that is absolutely normal and endorsed in the gay and lesbian community.

    And finally:

    Recent data indicate that describing gay men as promiscuous is highly inaccurate.

    “Recent data”, of course, being primarily self-reported information from an online dating site.

    So by that logic, I’ll go to Manhunt, and any information I draw from that is perfectly scientific and indicative of the gay and lesbian community.

    Uh huh.

  • 30

    Yes, because the man was arguing against the age of consent being at fourteen.

    Can you not write a response without lying? He was arguing against raising the age of consent from its current 14 up to 16, not arguing that 14 is too old.
    Is it really that difficult for you to say that the man is an idiot and a pervert, or will you really go down trying to defend someone who thinks there’s nothing wrong with a fourteen-year-old having sex with a thirty-one-year old?

    I merely pointed out that you were deliberately distorting what was said. That does not mean I am in favor of adult/child sex, or that I would defend someone who is. Adults should not be having sex with children. It’s wrong, in my opinion, even if it is consensual.

    your support and endorsement of statements such as this is what provides ample proof

    That comment was made by Wade after my comment. I am not capable of time travel, and can therefore neither support nor endorse statements not yet made.

    So were you to actually be practicing monogamy and sexual responsibility

    Are you calling me a liar?

    you would be behaving, in the words of the gay and lesbian community, like “Puritans”, and would be “Christofascists” who opposed the natural promiscuous behavior that is absolutely normal and endorsed in the gay and lesbian community.

    Wade is a person; he speaks for himself. He does not speal for either me or the gay and lesbian community.

    Or are you of the mind of Wade that says that adults who have sex with underage children are not responsible because the child tricked them, and therefore the child is to blame?

    Wade mentioned a specific incident of a minor concealing her age. So you endorse entrapment; in this case, minors concealing their ages in order to trick men in their 20s into thinking they are of age, then reporting those men to the authorities. Nice.

  • 31

    DAMMIT!!!! F’in’ HTML . . .

    second attempt:

    Yes, because the man was arguing against the age of consent being at fourteen.

    Can you not write a response without lying? He was arguing against raising the age of consent from its current 14 up to 16, not arguing that 14 is too old.

    Is it really that difficult for you to say that the man is an idiot and a pervert, or will you really go down trying to defend someone who thinks there’s nothing wrong with a fourteen-year-old having sex with a thirty-one-year old?

    I merely pointed out that you were deliberately distorting what was said. That does not mean I am in favor of adult/child sex, or that I would defend someone who is. Adults should not be having sex with children. It’s wrong, in my opinion, even if it is consensual.

    your support and endorsement of statements such as this is what provides ample proof

    That comment was made by Wade after my comment. I am not capable of time travel, and can therefore neither support nor endorse statements not yet made.

    So were you to actually be practicing monogamy and sexual responsibility

    Are you calling me a liar?

    you would be behaving, in the words of the gay and lesbian community, like “Puritans”, and would be “Christofascists” who opposed the natural promiscuous behavior that is absolutely normal and endorsed in the gay and lesbian community.

    Wade is a person; he speaks for himself. He does not speal for either me or the gay and lesbian community.

    Or are you of the mind of Wade that says that adults who have sex with underage children are not responsible because the child tricked them, and therefore the child is to blame?

    Wade mentioned a specific incident of a minor concealing her age. So you endorse entrapment; in this case, minors concealing their ages in order to trick men in their 20s into thinking they are of age, then reporting those men to the authorities. Nice.

  • 32
    JeffreyRO5 says:

    This Gallagher woman is some piece of work. While claiming to be an expert on marriage, she writes articles expounding the virtues of marriage for adult couples and their children, including longer life, greater wealth and better health. And in the same breath insists that gay couples and THEIR children be denied access to to marriage! What kind of monster advocates a public policy that hurts children??? I can only imagine what’s next on her agenda: keeping health insurance away from black people? Forbidding Muslims from having seat belts and airbags in their cars? Yikes.

  • 33
    JeffreyRO5 says:

    Read this article by Maggie and then tell me it’s not immoral to withhold marriage from gay couples and their children!

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_4_why_marriage_is.html

  • 34

    I hope that article was entered into evidence for the Prop 8 trial. To write at length about how beneficial marriage is, then turn around and demand it be denied certain people, is truly beyond the pale.

  • 35

    […] Gallagher wants to know if she has blood on her hands.  Jimmy Swaggart.  Peter Sprigg.  Tony Perkins.  Bryan Fischer.  Linda Harvey.  […]

  • 36

    […] Gallagher wants to know if she has blood on her hands. Jimmy Swaggart. Peter Sprigg. Tony Perkins. Bryan Fischer. Linda Harvey. Whether […]

  • 37

    I merely pointed out that you were deliberately distorting what was said.

    By pointing out that the gay and lesbian community stated that moving the age of consent from 14 to 16 would have a disproportionate impact on gays — which means that gays are having more sex with children ages 14 to 16 than are straight people.

    And furthermore, that the gay and lesbian community, in regard to this example, brought up the fact that it is “common” in the gay and lesbian community for adults to have sex with those seventeen years their junior — and that these gay adults who were having sex with children seventeen years their junior would be disproportionately affected by a movement in the age of consent from fourteen to sixteen.

    And of course, your immediate reaction? Spin, deflect, attack me, do anything but acknowledge that the gay and lesbian community, in a gay and lesbian news source, is openly stating that gays and lesbians disproportionately have sex with children ages fourteen to sixteen.

    Defending it by diversionary attacks. Got it.

    That comment was made by Wade after my comment. I am not capable of time travel, and can therefore neither support nor endorse statements not yet made.

    But you are capable of commenting after the fact, and the Tisinai Rule applies: if you do not condemn something posted on the web, you support it.

    Are you calling me a liar?

    (shrug) I simply pointed out that your alleged monogamy and sexual responsibility were at odds with your endorsement of calling such things “Christofascism” and being “Puritan”.

    Who knows? You COULD actually just be trying to keep up appearances because you know how the gay and lesbian community mocks these things.

    Wade is a person; he speaks for himself. He does not speal for either me or the gay and lesbian community.

    According to Rob, Clint McMillan speaks for all Christians and religious people.

    You can treat people equally, or you can try to fall back and argue that your sexual orientation entitles you to be a hypocrite.

  • 38

    Sorry, Clint McCance.

  • 39
    I merely pointed out that you were deliberately distorting what was said.

    By pointing out that the gay and lesbian community stated that moving the age of consent from 14 to 16 would have a disproportionate impact on gays — which means that gays are having more sex with children ages 14 to 16 than are straight people.

    It means the person who said it thinks that is the case. That doesn’t mean it is. Nor does that mean the gay and lesbian community, as a whole, either thinks it’s the norm or thinks it’s acceptible behavior.

    I simply pointed out that your alleged monogamy and sexual responsibility were at odds with your endorsement of calling such things “Christofascism” and being “Puritan”.

    I made no such endorsement. Again, that comment was made after mine.

    Who knows? You COULD actually just be trying to keep up appearances because you know how the gay and lesbian community mocks these things.

    I hate that some people mock monogamy. I also hate it when people attempt to attribute the words and attitudes of other people to me. I volunteer with LGBT youth and strongly advocate monogamy. You have now twice accused me of lying about being a firm believer in monogamy and in a 100% monogamous relationship. Libel is against the law, you know.

    According to Rob, Clint [McCance] speaks for all Christians and religious people.

    Rob wrote no such thing. Libel is against the law, you know.

  • 40

    Rob wrote no such thing.

    Yes he did.

    It means the person who said it thinks that is the case. That doesn’t mean it is. Nor does that mean the gay and lesbian community, as a whole, either thinks it’s the norm or thinks it’s acceptible behavior.

    Tisinai Rule. You have to repudiate it and condemn it, or you support it.

    I made no such endorsement. Again, that comment was made after mine.

    Tisinai Rule. You have to repudiate it and condemn it, or you support and endorse it.

    I hate that some people mock monogamy. I also hate it when people attempt to attribute the words and attitudes of other people to me.

    Tisinai Rule. You have to repudiate it and condemn it, or you support and endorse it.

    I volunteer with LGBT youth and strongly advocate monogamy. You have now twice accused me of lying about being a firm believer in monogamy and in a 100% monogamous relationship.

    Actually, I have twice stated that your allegations of being monogamous and supporting monogamy are completely inconsistent with your endorsement and support of calling such beliefs “Christofascist” and “Puritan”.

    LightningBaltimore, I personally have NO idea what Christofascists such as ND30 have against promiscuity! They are behaving like a Puritan, and that everyone sahould abide by their sense of morals! It’s offensive!

  • 41

    All you can do is repeat your mantras, eh?

    How about an actual quote from Rob that supports your libelous accusations?

    Tisinai Rule, huh?

    So you endorse and condone that women secretly enjoy being raped? That’s horrible. I have you yet to see you repudiate it or condemn it; therefore, you support it. Of course, if you say now that you disagree, it’s already too late, as you didn’t until you were called out on it.

  • 42

    So you endorse and condone that women secretly enjoy being raped?

    No. Indeed, the very definition of the word “rape” indicates that the woman is not consenting and is not enjoying herself. I would say that anyone who is saying that a) has never been raped and b) doesn’t even have the most basic idea of the concept.

    You have to remember, Lightning, the Tisinai Rule is based on Rob’s misunderstanding of the universe. Since he is incapable of criticizing or condemning the behavior of another gay and lesbian person, he thinks it’s some type of overwhelming maneuver to demand that someone else do so.

    In short, it works on you because you simply can’t call Richard Hudler a liar and a pervert, or call out Wade for saying that monogamy and sexual responsibility are “Puritan” and “Christofascist”. That would be an enormous breach of gay etiquette, and you simply aren’t ready for the kind of abuse the gay and lesbian community endorses towards those who disagree with it.

  • 43

    Statements like “Adults should not be having sex with children. It’s wrong, in my opinion, even if it is consensual.” and “I hate that some people mock monogamy,” cover everyone. Naming individuals at the same time would be redundant.

  • 44

    But the Tisinai Rule makes it clear that you must specifically condemn each individual, and that general statements do not count.

    Also, why are you worried about redundancy? Is there a pixel limit? Can you only type so many words per day?

  • 45
  • 46

    […] Gallagher wants to know if she has blood on her hands. Jimmy Swaggart. Peter Sprigg. Tony Perkins. Bryan Fischer. Linda Harvey. Whether […]

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