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	<title>wakingupnow.com &#187; rebuttal</title>
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		<title>Maggie Gallagher Washes Her Hands</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/maggie-gallagher-washes-her-hands</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/maggie-gallagher-washes-her-hands#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Maggie Gallagher]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[National Organization for Marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=3328</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Maggie Gallagher has an editorial in the the NY Post in which she denies her battle against marriage equality has any effect on gay teen suicides.  Let’s have a look.  Maggie’s statements are in bold.</p>
<p>Do I have blood on my hands?</p>
<p>Ooo, pick me, I know!</p>
<p>Major gay-rights groups are saying so. Each of us who opposes [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Maggie Gallagher has an </em><a href="http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/don_blame_me_for_gay_teen_suicides_l1Wt32kEJFFve2SzkjbpYP#ixzz12ud3ftCR" target="_blank"><em>editorial</em></a><em> in the the NY Post in which she denies her battle against marriage equality has any effect on gay teen suicides.  Let’s have a look.  Maggie’s statements are in bold.</em></p>
<p><strong>Do I have blood on my hands?</strong></p>
<p>Ooo, pick me, I know!</p>
<p><strong>Major gay-rights groups are saying so. Each of us who opposes gay marriage, they say, is responsible for the terrible and tragic suicides of gay teens that recently hit the news.</strong></p>
<p>I can’t speak for the major gay groups, but personally I’ve always made a <a href="http://wakingupnow.com/blog/no-h8" target="_blank">distinction</a> between people who earn 6-figure salaries by spreading lies about gays and lesbians and marriage, and the voters who oppose marriage equality as a result.  But this is one of your favorite tactics, Maggie:  any criticism of you is actually an attack on millions of people.  Delusions of grandeur much?</p>
<p><strong>San Francisco just filed a brief in the Prop 8 case, saying 7 million Californians who voted to protect marriage as the union of one man and one woman are responsible for high rates of suicide among gay people.</strong></p>
<p>Actually, the brief says:</p>
<blockquote><p>The net effect of discrimination against lesbians and gay men in society, according to Dr. Meyer, is a disproportionate incidence of mental and physical health problems, substance abuse, depression, and suicide.</p></blockquote>
<p>“Discrimination against gays and lesbians in society” includes not just gay marriage, but job discrimination, housing discrimination, immigration, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, beatings, arson, and parental abandonment.  The San Francisco brief doesn’t even mention the 7 million people, but you want your readers to believe the brief “says” what you claims it “says.”</p>
<p>You’d have been more accurate here if you said some of us believe that those 7 million voters contributed to the problem.  But not nearly as much as people like you who lied to get their votes.  Or who spend their lives stripping gays and lesbians of even the <a href="http://wakingupnow.com/blog/kafka-and-nom" target="_blank">smallest</a> legal recognition. <span id="more-3328"></span></p>
<p><strong>Evan Wolfson, one of the leading architects of the gay marriage movement, calls me out personally: &#8220;National Organization for Marriage Chairman Maggie Gallagher is among those who, with reckless disregard, attacks LGBT youth.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>I’ve never met Evan Wolfson and can’t comment on his claim.  But I do know we’re right to call you out personally, especially when you tell people that same-sex couples <a href="http://wakingupnow.com/blog/calling-out-bigotry" target="_blank">can’t love each other</a> the way opposite-sex couples can.  That we can’t love our children the way straight couples can.  You don’t think that sends a message of despair to gay kids?  <em>Really?</em></p>
<p><strong>Former Clinton adviser Richard Socarides told the AP these suicides demonstrate why gays should be allowed to marry: &#8220;When you speak out for full equality now, as opposed to partial equality, or incremental equality, you send a message to everybody, including the bullies, that everyone is equal.&#8221; </strong></p>
<p><strong>Apparently, either we all agree that gay marriage is good or gay children will die.</strong></p>
<p>Actually, either we all stop saying that gays are inferior to straights, or gay children will die.</p>
<p><strong>It&#8217;s a horrific charge to levy in response to some pretty horrifying stories. Will gay marriage really reduce or prevent gay teen suicide? I felt a moral obligation to find out.</strong></p>
<p>Or a financial obligation to keep your money rolling in.</p>
<p><strong>Massachusetts has been tracking gay high school students for a decade using the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention&#8217;s Youth Risk Behavior Survey. </strong></p>
<p><strong>LGBT teens were roughly four times as likely as other students to attempt suicide in the last year. They&#8217;re also about twice as likely to report being in a physical fight at school, three times more likely to say they were injured by a weapon and almost four times as likely to say they missed school because they felt physically unsafe, compared to other teens.</strong></p>
<p><strong>These kinds of negative outcomes are consistent with the idea that anti-gay bullying is mainly responsible for the higher suicide rate among gay teens. </strong></p>
<p>I hear a “but” coming…</p>
<p><strong>But as I kept reading, I kept finding pieces of the puzzle that <em>don&#8217;t</em> seem to fit the &#8220;it&#8217;s homophobia pulling the trigger&#8221; narrative. </strong></p>
<p>Not hard to do when your income depends on it.</p>
<p><strong>Gay students are <em>also</em> more than twice as likely to report having had sexual intercourse before age 13 &#8212; that is, to be sexually abused as children. They are three times as likely to report being the victims of dating violence, and nearly four times as likely to report forced sexual contact.</strong></p>
<p>Teens who are open enough to identify themselves as gay might also be open enough to reveal things the average teen would hide.  At least, that’s one answer.</p>
<p>An alternative is that people like you have so consistently and thoroughly demeaned gay people that gay kids are more confused, conflicted, and vulnerable to abuse than straight kids.</p>
<p><strong>A majority of LGBT teens in Massachusetts reported using illegal drugs in the last month.</strong></p>
<p>Congratulations – your message of despair is having an impact!</p>
<p><strong>(Perhaps most oddly, gay teens are also three times as likely as non-gay teens to report either becoming pregnant or getting someone else pregnant.)</strong></p>
<p>Does it seem odd?  You don’t think gay teens could be eager to prove to themselves they’re not gay in a culture that demeans their sexual orientation?  If you disagree, then you’d best improve your case so it can account for this <em>oddity</em>.</p>
<p><strong>Forced sex, childhood sexual abuse, dating violence, early unwed pregnancy, substance abuse &#8212; could these be a more important factor in the increased suicide risk of LGBT high schoolers than anything people like me ever said? </strong></p>
<p>Maggie, this defense amounts to nothing more than, <em>I’m not the only thing pushing gay kids to suicide, and other things are even worse!</em> That doesn’t relieve you of your culpability.  And again, you should look at your role in making gay kids more vulnerable to these forces.</p>
<p><strong>The deeper you look, the more you see kids who are generally unprotected in horrifying ways that make it hard to believe &#8212; if you are <em>really</em> focusing on these kids&#8217; well-being &#8212; that gay marriage is the answer.</strong></p>
<p>Nice straw man, Maggie.  Who said gay marriage is “the answer”?  Marriage discrimination is one facet of anti-gay discrimination.  You take comfort in the idea that you’re not the <em>entire</em> problem, but you’re still <em>part</em> of the problem.</p>
<p><strong>And that&#8217;s exactly what the Youth Risk Behavior data also shows: In 2001, gay teens in Massachussetts were almost four times more likely to have attempted suicide (31 percent versus 8 percent). In 2007 &#8212; after four years of legalized gay marriage in that state &#8212; gay teens were <em>still</em> about four times more likely to attempt suicide than non-gay teens (29 percent versus 6 percent).</strong></p>
<p>Or, perhaps, after six years of increasing visibility in the youth media, gay teens were more willing to talk about being gay 2007 than they were in 2001 (or 1991 or 1981 or 1951).</p>
<p>Of course, another difference between 2001 and 2007 is that NOM (or <a href="http://www.protectmarriage.com/" target="_blank">Protect Marriage</a> or <a href="http://www.standformarriagemaine.com/index.php?home=1" target="_blank">Stand For Marriage Maine</a>) didn’t exist in 2001, getting national attention.  And it’s <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,007.htm" target="_blank">well-documented</a> that anti-gay abuse and violence increase during the campaigns against marriage equality spear-headed by, well, you. Could there be a connection?</p>
<p><strong>Whether you are looking at their faces or looking at the statistics, one thing is clear: These kids need <em>help</em>, real help. They should not become a mere rhetorical strategy, a plaything in our adult battles.</strong></p>
<p>If you see gays and lesbians battling the forces that drive kids to suicide, it takes willful blindness for you to reduce those kids to &#8220;a mere rhetorical strategy, a plaything in our adult battles.”  You’re demanding we fight crime while ignoring the forces that cause crime.</p>
<p><strong>Each of these teens is a child of God. And each one deserves better from all of us than becoming a &#8220;teachable moment&#8221; in someone else&#8217;s culture war.</strong></p>
<p>And yet here you are, using them as a “teachable moment” in your culture war.  You’re right about one thing – they deserved better than that.  They deserved rich lives in a society where people don’t demean them or strip away their rights or bully them to death.  You should work toward that world instead of scrambling to avoid your share of the blame.</p>
<p><em><strong>Maggie Gallagher is president of the National Organization for Marriage.</strong></em></p>
<p>National Organization “for” Marriage?  I don&#8217;t think so.  Have you ever counted up the number of marriages you’ve prevented versus the number you’ve saved?  Or have you been too busy lately washing that mysterious red stuff off your hands?</p>
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		<title>&#8220;A Separation of Science and State&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/separation-of-science-and-state</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/separation-of-science-and-state#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Some things are so stupid they&#8217;re hard to think about.  I mean that literally.  See, Nick Rizzuto has written a column for conservatives called, “Time for a Separation of Science and State.”  He really has.  He starts off with:</p>
<p>While many people take for granted the fact that it is dangerous to use articles of faith [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some things are so stupid they&#8217;re hard to think about.  I mean that literally.  See, Nick Rizzuto has written a column for conservatives called, “<a href="http://townhall.com/columnists/NickRizzuto/2009/12/21/time_for_a_separation_of_science_and_state" target="_blank">Time for a Separation of Science and State</a>.”  He really has.  He starts off with:</p>
<blockquote><p>While many people take for granted the fact that it is dangerous to use articles of faith as the basis for public policy, we often fail to realize that science too represents an extremely dodgy justification for law.</p></blockquote>
<p>He supports this by saying,</p>
<blockquote><p>Arguably, scientific fact changes more rapidly than religious dogma.</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, I would rephrase that as:  <strong><em>Science corrects its errors more rapidly than religious dogma. </em></strong> But Nick continues:<span id="more-675"></span></p>
<blockquote><p>What was undeniable truth one day might be discovered to be quackery the next. The most glaring example of this in the 20th century is the science of eugenics.</p></blockquote>
<p>Eugenics is a discredited theory about racial and genetic purity.  Nick claims it led to the Virginia’s <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Integrity_Act_of_1924" target="_blank">Racial Integrity Act</a> of 1924.  This horrendous law permitted forced sterilization and banned interracial marriage.  All because of science, he alleges.  Never mind the that Virginia passed its first ban on interracial marriage in 1691, long before eugenics.  Never mind that that in 1959, the last time interracial bans were upheld, <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&amp;vol=388&amp;invol=1" target="_blank">the judge supported them on religious grounds</a>.   Nope.  It’s all science’s fault</p>
<p>Nick’s really taking a shot in the global warming debate, of course.  Since he can’t deny the scientific consensus, he&#8217;s trying to argue we should ignore it.  Bizarrely, he reasons that because scientists are capable of admitting they’re wrong, we shouldn’t pay attention to them when we make policy decisions.</p>
<blockquote><p>Once again, we are beset by a group of people who are insisting that the science is settled and unquestionable. Policy, they argue, must reflect this absolute truth. The problem with this is that the very idea of unquestionable science makes it no different than faith. Any scientist will tell you that the only way scientific progress even occurs is if science is constantly and rigorously questioned.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, he does sort of have a point.  Scientists don’t deal in certainty, and generally won’t say they’re 100% of anything.  Nick recognizes that.  Surely, then, his advice would be to dismiss the idea that we can achieve certainty in worldly matters, to operate as best we can within the limits of our knowledge, and to adjust our policies as our understanding of the world improves.  In other words, to be more <em>genuinely</em> scientific.</p>
<p>Did I fool you?  Ha!  Here’s the last sentence of his article</p>
<blockquote><p>It’s time to take science out of the realm of politics and return it to its rightful place.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow.  He’s not just dismissing the policy implications of global warming.  He’s dismissing the policy implications of…<em>science</em>.  He’s not merely saying we should remember that scientific findings can change – he wants us <em>to take science out of the realm of politics</em>.  What kind of world would that be?  Consider a few very real-life possibilities:</p>
<ul>
<li><strong><em>Let’s bring back cholera!</em> </strong> Englishman John Snow invented the science of epidemiology when <a href="http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/09/0908london-cholera-pump/" target="_blank">he traced an outbreak of cholera to a tainted water pump</a>.  He convinced local officials to disable the pump and stopped a potential epidemic.  Nick Rizzuto  would have discarded this <em>policy suggestion</em> as worthless because physicians of the day thought cholera was the fault of “bad air.”  And if science changes then we shouldn’t base policy on it, right?</li>
<li><em><strong>Let’s fight wars with rocks!</strong></em> A strong defense is central to conservatism, but who needs science when debating defense policy?  Who needs radar and satellites and flying machines?  Who needs to think about science when researching new defense technology?  Let’s go back to the pre-science weapons: rocks and sticks.</li>
<li><em><strong>Let’s starve!</strong></em> The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl" target="_blank">Dustbowl</a> years of American agriculture &#8211;</li>
</ul>
<p>No, I can’t go on.  Really, it hurts too much to deal with so much stupid.  I could explore his notion of returning science “to its rightful place,” whatever unspecified place that is (apparently an objective, questioning view of the real world has no rightful place in political decisions) but why bother?  Because he’s not really making an argument.  You know what he’s doing?</p>
<p>He’s inventing a talking point.  Yes, a talking point, a pet phrase, a new bit of jargon: “separation of science and state.”</p>
<p>As a sound bite, it’s a nice attack on the separation-of-church-and-state idea.  First, it sneaks in an implicit but unproven equivalency between science and religion (even though, as he’s admitted, science is much quicker at updating and correcting itself).  And on top of that, it opens the door to making religion into law:  If we don’t separate science and state, why should we separate church and state?</p>
<p><a href="http://wakingupnow.com/blog/rep4that" target="_blank">I come back to this theme over and over</a>, but it seems like the Right is offering up another thought experiment to see if it takes hold.  An experiment in the politics of sound bites.  And do you know how we can be sure that Nick Rizzuto isn’t making a serious argument?  Because he never answers a basic question:  If we take science out of policy-making, then on what basis do we make policy?</p>
<p>Nick may have an answer.  But if so, he’s not willing to say it.</p>
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		<title>So he was a homo? Really?</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/a-homo-really-2</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/a-homo-really-2#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[civil rights]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Opponents of marriage equality love to position themselves as defenders of  morality.   Why, then, are their actions so often despicable?</p>
<p>This is Mecklenberg County Commissioner Bill James.  During a a debate on whether to offer domestic partner benefits to county employees  Commissioner Vilma Leake spoke of her son, who died of AIDS in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignright" src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2485/4194968605_6a9a6409c2_m.jpg" alt="" width="90" height="123" />Opponents of marriage equality love to position themselves as defenders of  morality.   Why, then, are their actions so often despicable?</p>
<p>This is Mecklenberg County Commissioner Bill James.  During a a debate on whether to offer domestic partner benefits to county employees  Commissioner Vilma Leake spoke of her son, who died of AIDS in 1993.   Bill’s response to this tragic, personal story was to lean over to her and say,</p>
<blockquote><p>So he was a homo?   Really?</p></blockquote>
<p>Having displayed <a href="http://billjames.org/Bill%20James%20Web%20Pages/Church%20links.htm" target="_blank">his Christian virtues</a> of kindness and compassion, Bill might have stopped there.  But no.   The next morning, he <a href="http://larson.wbt.com/index.cfm?month=12&amp;day=16&amp;year=2009" target="_blank">lied about the incident</a> on radio station WBT.   <span id="more-659"></span>He told radio host Keith Larson he was simply asking Vilma for clarification, and claimed:</p>
<blockquote><p>Before I could get completely through it, she reacted and made some sort of comment to the effect that somebody needed to hurt me.</p></blockquote>
<p><em>Ah, so he didn’t mean to say “homo.”   She cut him off!  It was all <strong>Vilma’s</strong> fault!</em> Except at this point the host played the clip of Bill saying,</p>
<blockquote><p>So he was a homo?   Really?</p></blockquote>
<p>Bill’s first response was to say, “What the heck was that?”  And when the host told him exactly what the heck it was, Bill paused long and hard before answering, “<a href="http://wakingupnow.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/homo_really.mp3" target="_blank">If you say so.</a>”</p>
<p>Next, caught in a clear and stark lie, Bill changed tactics and said he didn’t know “homo” was a derogatory term.  And since then, he’s gone on <a href="http://www.wsoctv.com/news/21985446/detail.html" target="_blank">a two-prong attack</a>.  He’s called Vilma a hypocrite, because decades ago she married a clergyman in a church that opposed homosexuality.    And he’s shocked – shocked! – that this woman has  threatened him with violence (actually, <a href="http://www.foxcharlotte.com/dpp/news/bill_james_121709" target="_blank">she said</a>, “You&#8217;re going to make me hurt you.  Don&#8217;t do that to me.  Don&#8217;t talk about my son.&#8221;).</p>
<p>Let’s recap Bill’s strategy in the civil equality debate:</p>
<ol>
<li>Degrade</li>
<li>Lie</li>
<li>Attack</li>
</ol>
<p>Even if Bill genuinely didn’t know “homo” was derogatory, it&#8217;s still true that his first defense was to lie about saying it.   We see this constantly from anti-equality forces:  they toss out deceit after deceit, and see which ones they can get away with.   Meanwhile, we spend the bulk of our time on the defensive, debunking their falsehoods even though the news cycle has moved on to the next deception, leaving the truth unheard.</p>
<p>The pattern is clear:  Our opponents abandon their moral principles in the course of their moral crusade.   Either they know they’re doing this, and it’s a failure of character, or they suffer a kind of unreasoning moral blindness when it comes to homosexuality.  That’s the mark of homophobia &#8212; which they claim doesn&#8217;t exist.  Even as they prove themselves wrong, again and again.</p>
<p><strong><em>PS:   Bill James made one comment on WBT that hasn’t gotten much attention:</em></strong></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>If she’s going to use her dead son’s tragic death as justification for allowing the behavior to go on – you know, more of that behavior to go on – I don’t think that she’s honoring her son’s memory.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p><strong><em>“Allowing the behavior to go on.”   Let that sink in and give you a chill.</em></strong></p>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="overflow: hidden; position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px;">Mecklenberg County Commissioner</div>
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		<title>Our Worst Opponents are Our Strangest Strongest Allies</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/our-worst-opponents-are-our-strangest-strongest-allies</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/our-worst-opponents-are-our-strangest-strongest-allies#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>This is why we&#8217;ll win:</p>
<p></p>
<p>Who can take this seriously?  No one who has a close gay relative, neighbor, friend, or colleague.  All we have to do to win is live outside the closet.  </p>
<p>Studies show that straights who know gays are far more likely to support equality.  Our opponents have never [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why we&#8217;ll win:</p>
<p><object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="320" height="260" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="flashvars" value="config=http://mediamatters.org/embed/cfg2?id=200910200038" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="allownetworking" value="all" /><param name="src" value="http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/flash/player.swf" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="320" height="260" src="http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/flash/player.swf" allowfullscreen="true" allownetworking="all" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="config=http://mediamatters.org/embed/cfg2?id=200910200038"></embed></object></p>
<p>Who can take this seriously?  No one who has a close gay relative, neighbor, friend, or colleague.  <em>All we have to do to win is live outside the closet.</em>  </p>
<p><a href="http://pewresearch.org/pubs/485/friends-who-are-gay" target="_blank">Studies </a>show that straights who know gays are far more likely to support equality.  Our opponents have never come to grips with this.  If we were such villains, you&#8217;d expect those who know us the best to fight us the hardest.  But it ain&#8217;t so.  Our enemies rely on ignorance, and we have the power to destroy that ignorance.  You&#8217;ll never change Pat Robertson&#8217;s mind by casually mentioning your weekend plans with your partner.    But you might change that undecided middle-of-the-roader in your carpool.</p>
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		<title>Talking Equality</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/talking-equality</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/talking-equality#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 03:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>So we lost the CA Supreme Court fight.  Boo hoo.  We&#8217;ll win the war.
<p>The next step in our battle will be to talk to EVERYONE we know about marriage equality. This video is my first stab at developing a set of answers to our opponents&#8217; objections. I hope it can help prepare people and give [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we lost the CA Supreme Court fight.  Boo hoo.  We&#8217;ll win the war.
<p>The next step in our battle will be to talk to EVERYONE we know about marriage equality. This video is my first stab at developing a set of answers to our opponents&#8217; objections. I hope it can help prepare people and give them confidence for those one-to-one conversations that will win us equality.
<p>
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vSTv7Xao93I&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vSTv7Xao93I&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object></p>
<p>
<p><a href="http://wakingupnow.com/Talking_Equality__part_1.pdf" target="_blank">Download</a> a text compilation of these points.  Also, a list of the source videos after the jump. <span id="more-183"></span></p>
<p>
<p>You&#8217;ll have to cut and paste these links into your browser &#8212; I&#8217;m crazy busy getting ready for the AIDS LifeCycle bike ride from San Francisco to LA, and don&#8217;t have time to make it pretty:</p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw7YoXXxRj4</p>
<p><object width="500" height="400"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8NCDNXC6KxY&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8NCDNXC6KxY&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTiTYRvaloQ</p>
<p><object width="500" height="400"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBqXE6u414&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBqXE6u414&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EczIRpJkVZM</p>
<p><object width="500" height="400"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/89CrFEEjV5U&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/89CrFEEjV5U&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM2MNdIGT7g</p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNdaAyQp_Og</p>
<p><object width="500" height="400"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk3emP3IIJ0&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk3emP3IIJ0&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4A1tH5MbMU</p>
<p><object width="500" height="400"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-dHNvFf8Gvk&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-dHNvFf8Gvk&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p><object width="500" height="400"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jqJDwq-oAX0&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jqJDwq-oAX0&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p><object width="500" height="400"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X_6-kqHJqpo&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X_6-kqHJqpo&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p><object width="500" height="306"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LIvS7redS8M&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LIvS7redS8M&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="500" height="306" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUskV1RxRfA</p>
<p>http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200905120037</p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKoqpV2L9_4</p>
<p>http://glaadblog.org/2009/05/13/bill-oreillys-evolution-marriage-equality-thing-will-lead-to-unions-with-a-goat-duck-turtle-dolphin/</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Gay Sex Proves There is a God</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/gay-sex-proves-there-is-a-god</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/gay-sex-proves-there-is-a-god#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 17:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[humor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen this vid, but watch it before continuing with this post.  It&#8217;s a hoot.
<p>

<p>
(And in case you&#8217;re convinced by Kirk and his friend, check out check it out.</p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen this vid, but watch it before continuing with this post.  It&#8217;s a hoot.
<p>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2z-OLG0KyR4&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2z-OLG0KyR4&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<p>
(And in case you&#8217;re convinced by Kirk and his friend, check out <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo" target=_blank">this</a>.)</p>
<p>
<p>
But now, in the spirit of &#8220;I wish I&#8217;d thought of that,&#8221; take a look at <a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b1e50c566e/further-proof-that-god-created-us" target="_blank">this</a>.  (I&#8217;ve linked to the video instead of embedding it because it&#8217;s definitely NSFW.)</p>
<p>
<p>
Seriously, <a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b1e50c566e/further-proof-that-god-created-us" target=""_blank">check it out</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>TVC: Dishonest or Dumb?</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/tvc-dishonest-or-dumb</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/tvc-dishonest-or-dumb#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>While I was working on this, I found another page on the TVC website that was so filled with lies and distortions that it made me crazy mad.  And I&#8217;m not talking about differences in opinion, but actual verifiable untruths.  In fact, I thought they might be genuinely dumb instead of dishonest because [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I was working on <a href="http://wakingupnow.com/blog/is-lying-a-traditional-value" target="_blank">this,</a> I found another page on the <a href="http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3616" target="_blank">TVC website</a> that was so filled with lies and distortions that it made me crazy mad.  And I&#8217;m not talking about differences in opinion, but actual verifiable untruths.  In fact, I thought they might be genuinely dumb instead of dishonest because only an idiot could hope to get away with being such a blatant liar.  Watch the video before reading further:</p>
<p><object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="560" height="340" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/F2nNzq2CrBo&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="340" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/F2nNzq2CrBo&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p>I had to cut this from the video to keep it short, but here&#8217;s a summary of what TVC&#8217;s done here.  TVC:</p>
<ul>
<li>lied about the FBI&#8217;s definition of intimidation</li>
<li>lied about the FBI&#8217;s definition of simple assault</li>
<li>lied about the FBI&#8217;s definition of aggravated assault</li>
<li> lied about the number of heterosexuals included in the 242 hate crime aggravated assaults</li>
<li>invented a definition of &#8220;violence&#8221; that excludes fistfights, cuts, bruises, domestic violence, and <em>murder</em></li>
<li>offered distorted comparisons of figures that aren&#8217;t in the same category</li>
<li>offered misleading information about what the FBI calls a hate crime</li>
<li>falsely implied that every aggravated assault against an LGBT person in 2007 was classified as a hate crime</li>
</ul>
<p>And they did all that in just 215 words.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>More on that Slippery Slope</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/more-on-that-slippery-slope</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/more-on-that-slippery-slope#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I have a new argument in mind when someone claims, &#8220;If you legalize gay marriage, you&#8217;ll have to let people marry their dog or a child or their sister or a whole group of people.&#8221;</p>
<p>I just want the right to marry a man.</p>
<p>Not a dog &#8212; no one has that right.</p>
<p>Not a child &#8212; no [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a new argument in mind when someone claims, &#8220;If you legalize gay marriage, you&#8217;ll have to let people marry their dog or a child or their sister or a whole group of people.&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>I just want the right to marry a man.</p>
<p>Not a dog &#8212; no one has that right.</p>
<p>Not a child &#8212; no one has that right</p>
<p>Not a close relative or a whole group of people &#8212; no one has that right.</p>
<p>I just want the right to marry a man &#8212; and half the population already has that right.  I just want to extend it to the entire population.  So that men and women are equal under the law.  That&#8217;s completely different from those other examples.</p></blockquote>
<p>I like this because I can say it quickly and because it gets to a key indisputable distinguishing fact:  No one can marry a dog, but some people can already marry a man.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve written about slippery slope arguments before, but I&#8217;m always looking for rebuttals and that are simple and short.  We have to remember that many undecided voters simply don&#8217;t care much about marriage equality, don&#8217;t think about it all that much, and will cast their ballot based on sound bites.</p>
<p>I can be long-winded, so I&#8217;ll never lack for lengthy arguments.  My personal challenge is to be brief.   In fact, based on what I wrote above, I could shorten it to:</p>
<blockquote><p>No one can marry a dog, but some people can already marry a man.  This just gives men and women the same rights.</p></blockquote>
<p>On the other hand repetition does help drive a point home.   Gut reactions, anyone?<br />
I&#8217;ll be out canvassing for marriage equality today, and if I have a chance to use this, I&#8217;ll let you know how it goes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Is Lying a Traditional Value?</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/is-lying-a-traditional-value</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/is-lying-a-traditional-value#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[civil rights]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=86</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t believe anything you hear from the Traditional Values Coalition.</p>
<p>Congress will soon vote on H.R. 1913, which adds &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; to existing hate crime legislation.  Naturally, the religious right &#8212; and TVC in particular &#8212; is fighting it with lies. They claim:</p>
<p>H.R. 1913 broadly defines “intimidation,” thus a pastor’s sermon could be considered “hate [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t believe anything you hear from the <a href="http://www.traditionalvalues.org" target="_blank">Traditional Values Coalition</a>.</p>
<p>Congress will soon vote on <a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1913" target="_blank">H.R. 1913</a>, which adds &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; to existing hate crime legislation.  Naturally, the <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22H.R.+1913%22+%22religious+freedom%22" target="_blank">religious right</a> &#8212; and TVC in particular &#8212; is fighting it with lies. <a href="http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3618" target="_blank">They claim</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>H.R. 1913 broadly defines “intimidation,” thus a pastor’s sermon could be considered “hate speech” under this legislation if heard by an individual who then acts aggressively against persons based on any “sexual orientation.” The pastor could be prosecuted for “conspiracy to commit a hate crime.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>One problem.   The word &#8220;intimidation&#8221; doesn&#8217;t appear in the bill.  Anywhere.    And this is such an easy lie to catch &#8212; so easy I have to wonder if they&#8217;ve actually deluded themselves into believing it.  As if they have a psychological disorder that clouds their thinking about homosexuality.   Hmm, what could we call that?<br />
The right&#8217;s primary tactic against H.R. 1913 is to claim it will:</p>
<blockquote><p>Criminalize so-called “hate speech,” which is any speech that is critical of homosexuality or gender confused behaviors.  The suppression of free speech will be justified by the claim that such speech “incites” individuals to commit violence against LGBT persons.</p></blockquote>
<p>They&#8217;re basing this on an exchange between U.S. Representatives Louie Gohmert and Artur Davis:</p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. Gohmert:   [If] somebody within that congregation goes out and does an act of violence, and that person says that that minister counseled or induced him through the sermon to commit that act, are you saying under your amendment that in no way could that ever be introduced against the minister?<br />
Mr. Davis. No.</p></blockquote>
<p>Which leads TVC to assert:</p>
<blockquote><p>Ultimately, a pastor’s sermon concerning religious beliefs and teachings on homosexuality and gender confused behaviors could be considered to cause violence and will be punished or at least investigated.</p></blockquote>
<p>Let&#8217;s leave TVC&#8217;s fantasy world behind and deal with facts:<br />
<strong></strong></p>
<p><strong>FACT:  &#8220;Hate speech&#8221; appears nowhere in the bill.</strong><br />
A hate crime is when someone:</p>
<blockquote><p>willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of any person.</p></blockquote>
<p>Bodily harm.  Fire, guns, and bombs.<br />
<strong></strong></p>
<p><strong>FACT:  If a criminal says someone incited him to violence, the authorities have a duty to investigate.</strong><br />
That&#8217;s true whether it&#8217;s a hate crime or not.  Remember Gohmert&#8217;s hypothetical:  &#8220;[the]minister counseled or induced him through the sermon to commit [violence].&#8221;<br />
Here&#8217;s a hypothetical of my own, based on Gohmert&#8217;s:  Suppose a minister says, &#8220;<em>Leviticus 20:13 tells us homosexuals shall surely be put to death.  Now go kill the faggot running the soup kitchen next door!&#8221;</em> TVC is outraged &#8212; outraged! &#8212; that the minister could be investigated (merely investigated!) if someone ran the faggot over with his car and pinned a note, &#8220;<em>Leviticus 20:13</em>&#8221; to his body.<br />
<strong></strong></p>
<p><strong>FACT:  H.R. 1913 has First Amendment protections built in.</strong><br />
It states:</p>
<blockquote><p>Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>FACT:  H.R. 1913 amends existing law to extend protections already established for hate crimes based on religion.</strong><br />
Right-wing Christians <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=%22anti-christian+hate+speech%22" target="_blank">claim to be victims of hate speech</a> these days &#8212; and yet they don&#8217;t bring charges in the U.S., even though they&#8217;ve been protected by federal hate crime law for forty years.  Why?  Because hateful speech isn&#8217;t illegal.<br />
Their own actions &#8212; or lack of action &#8212; show they&#8217;re just fearmongering when they claim the law will criminalize speech.  They&#8217;re also hypocritical in denouncing protections offered to gays and lesbians without acknowledging that they themselves already have them.</p>
<p>But we have to do more than counter their lies with the truth.  When confronted with this campaign of deceit, point out that our extremist opponents can&#8217;t mount an argument without dishonesty and hypocrisy.   When you see this from a religious group trying to claim the moral high ground, you know you&#8217;re not dealing with devout believers trying to protect our culture, but troubled souls working out their own personal demons.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Gay Marriage and Civil Rights</title>
		<link>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/gay-marriage-and-civil-rights</link>
		<comments>http://wakingupnow.com/blog/gay-marriage-and-civil-rights#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>robtish</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[civil rights]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gay marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rebuttal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wakingupnow.com/blog/?p=80</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always loved this clip, and I&#8217;m delighted that recent events give me an excuse to make a quick video around it.
<p>
</p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always loved this clip, and I&#8217;m delighted that recent events give me an excuse to make a quick video around it.
<p>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jq4PWFH4-EI&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jq4PWFH4-EI&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	</channel>
</rss>

